Mads Gilbert, a Norwegian doctor in Gaza, tells Sky News that the number of civilians injured and killed in Gaza proves that Israel is deliberately attacking the population.
‘They are Bombing 1.5 million People in a Cage’
Jan 5, ’09
8:18 PM
View My Stats
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 License.
Comments
22 Comments so far. Leave a comment below.I have a great deal of sympathy for the civilians caught in the middle of this….but what, exactly, is Israel supposed to do when Hamas keeps launching rockets onto its territory, killing its own civilians? Sit there?
Hamas needs to get a clue and realize Israel’s not going anywhere, and that its own idiotic, anti-Israel actions are getting Palestinians killed. Of course, the problem is…Israel being the aggressor and killing hundreds of civilians feeds right into Hamas’ hands by giving them recruits and other psychological tools to use.
God, I hate the Middle East. And the British for making it what it is today.
his closing words:
“so you know, you cannot separate between the civilians and the fighters in such a situation”
I’m pretty sure he means it in the accepted way – that Israel should stop the attacks for fear (well, not fear – certainty) of harming and killing civilians.
But it can just as well be read as Israel’s official line – that they cannot possibly target Hamas fighters only, without harming civilians as well. What Israel refers to as “human shields”.
So the entire moral arguments kind of break down to a numbers game:
How many dead on either side.
Or what percentage of the dead are civilians.
Or what percentage of either side are civilian.
Or what’s the intent of either side.
or…
Or maybe the line is truly blurred when you truly “cannot separate between the civilians and the fighters”…and all civilians on either side are game.
I’m not sure who to believe here, but for the counterpoint, take a look at what Charles Krauthammer has to say:
“Israel is so scrupulous about civilian life that, risking the element of surprise, it contacts enemy noncombatants in advance to warn them of approaching danger. Hamas, which started this conflict with unrelenting rocket and mortar attacks on unarmed Israelis — 6,464 launched from Gaza in the past three years — deliberately places its weapons in and near the homes of its own people.
This has two purposes. First, counting on the moral scrupulousness of Israel, Hamas figures civilian proximity might help protect at least part of its arsenal. Second, knowing that Israelis have new precision weapons that may allow them to attack nonetheless, Hamas hopes that inevitable collateral damage — or, if it is really fortunate, an errant Israeli bomb — will kill large numbers of its own people for which, of course, the world will blame Israel.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/01/AR2009010101780.html
Sorry for any inappropriate levity, but is it me, or does the guy describing the situation kinda sound like Father Guido Sarducci?
McGee:
::sigh::
Of course, because Hamas started it (because George Dubya Booosh said so.) Please. To use your phrase, “get a clue”, go to the library or a bookstore and read some history before commenting on a situation that is clearly not an issue of “well, gollee jee, what were they SUPPOSED to do?” (the excuse of mental midgets for 200,000 years.)
Niel… please elaborate. The tone you use in that paragraph makes it seem like you’ve outwitted McGee and won the argument, when in reality you proposed nothing in response to what he has said.
You know, I’ve been seeing alot of comments in different places saaying things like “What would America do?”, or Britain for that matter.
It’s an odd question, we know exactly what they would do, because we know what they did historically.
Take the British, who in 1945, after enduring air raids on civilian population for several years as part of a “legitimate” war (it had been nicely declared), went and firebobmbed Dresden to rubble. The city was flattened, and several thousand people killed.
I’m really trying not to mention the Falklands war, where the British sent most of the Royal Navy to kill some Argentines who had stepped on some unpopulated islands.
The Americans are even worse, in this perspective. They had been attacked, and brought into a big war, by the Japanese. I’m not an expert on the Pacific arena in WWII (I am on the European theatre), but I think the Japanese mostly targeted military installations, such as Pearl Harbor Naval Base.
After a few years of this, the Americans dropped two nuclear bombs on civilian population centres.
We have a slightly more modern example of Vietnam as well, where chemical weapons (Napalm, Agent Orange) were used on civilian population as well, in a war that didn’t even remotely involve American civilian population.
That’s enough of me for now. I have all sorts of examples and metaphors for this, but I’m tired of the sound of my own ketboard.
Thanks for listening.
If I jump from a burning building in order to save myself from the fire while knowing that my fall will be cushioned by a child (who will not survive the impact), then I intend to kill the child as well as to save myself.
What do you think?
http://unspeak.net/unintended/
In the interest of balance:
http://palestinian.ning.com/forum/topics/the-other-side-of-the-story
‘They are Bombing 1.5 million People in a Cage’
As long as they keep firing rockets, I see no reason why the the cage should not be bombed. The “Palestinians” should learn to control their own people, and until they do, they will suffer the consquences.
On another note, I wish there was some way that the world could take over that region, and let it be governed by a world government, where everyone has a voice. But of course, a few radicals would ruin it and we would be in the same mess we are in now?
Hijack:
Charlie said:
but I think the Japanese mostly targeted military installations, such as Pearl Harbor Naval Base.
In their initial ‘attack’ on the US territories, yes – but at the same time they attacked the Philippines, Hong Kong, Singapore and other Pacific areas – within the one day time period of 7 December, it wasn’t just military that Imperial Japan targeted, take a look at the second Sino-Japanese war and prior, over 17 million Chinese civilians killed during that conflict – if you weren’t Japanese you were less than human in Imperial Japan’s eyes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Alls_Policy
/Hijack
Both involved parties in this conflict believe in eye-for-an-eye, so that will just leave them both blind.
“I have a great deal of sympathy for the civilians caught in the middle of this….but what, exactly, is Israel supposed to do when Hamas keeps launching rockets onto its territory, killing its own civilians? Sit there?”
This type of cherry-picking has been reiterated over and over again.
What it fails to consider is the fact of the blockade of Gaza. A blockade imposed after Hamas took control in an overwhelming election victory. Then there is also the attempted coup d’etat by the losers of said election.
The blockade IS an act of war! (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/69580/blockade) The Israeli’s struck the first blow.
There is more mutant morality at play here when one considers that the just war theory is turned on its head. The Palestinians are fighting back by firing rockets (primarily with unguided fertilizer powered home-made rockets, which pose far more danger to the person lighting the fuse than to anyone else) and therefore the Israeli officials claim that anything and everything is justified in ’self-defence’ … hey, it’s the Bush Doctrine! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine)
It makes me sick.
If a militant group places its arsenal underneath a residential building… that’s mean… but does that give you the right to bomb the fuck out of said building?
Please explain your elaborate theories why it is justified to the father of that kid that just lost both arms and legs.
At least I have not seen many Israelis dancing in the streets with joy after some muslims were killed. On the other hand I have seen many Arabs dance in the street when Israelis were killed. Or Americans.
The PLO had, untill just a few years ago, the official goal to annihilate Israel. Hamas still has that goal in its official documents. Still, many westerners find it unfair should Israel not negotiate with them … I have no comprehension what it would be like to have to negotiate with someone whose main purpose it is to kill me.
Niel is phrasing the typical liberal view here: the Palestininas were there first. Well, that just depends on which book you read and who you believe. There are as many clues to find to the opposite view: Palestinians were never a people untill they had the jews as common enemy, very recently.
They both have to accept the fact that they are both there. And live with it.
I saw Americans punching the air with joy, and whooping with delight, when the IRA bombed the Grand Hotel in Brighton (1984). I was sitting in an “Irish bar”, in Manhattan; and it appalled and saddened me, to see a crude celebration of the death and maiming of human beings.
As for ‘book you read and who you believe’: ever read the Bible? Who do you reckon the Phillistines were/are? Libera/smiberal!
A letter titled
“As the Arabs see the Jews”
His Majesty King Abdullah,
The American Magazine
November, 1947
http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
Perhaps, as he alludes, they should have been given Vermont instead. But then there’d still be that “Holy Land” nonsense to deal with.
@Michael:
“Then there is also the attempted coup d’etat by the losers of said election.”
OMG!
Your lack of knowledge is so stunning it’s almost funny.
Hamas (who won the elections) attempted and succeeded in their coup d’etat. Not the other way around.
They did not disband their own militia after they were elected and used their people to kill or drive out all members of the Palestinian Authority’s military force (which was mainly Fatah people – the opposing, losing party).
You can’t blame the british for the mess in the middl east any more than you can blame the Portugese traders who started the African slave trade. We need to learn rom the past, not use it as a reason to continue atrocities.
Also, the Palestinians have been treated like cattle for year, decades even. Is it really suprising that when you treat people like they are less then human they become capable of inhuman acts of terrorism? The Palestinians are not innocent, but they are reacting to the situation imposed on them by Israel.
Am I the only one who realizes that Israel is just breeding another generation of palestinian terrorists? They might destroy Hamas, but until the Israeli government treats the Palestinians with respect, the only thing that will replace Hamas will be even more violent and horrific. Violence is not the solution, treating your neighbor (even if you don’t think they should live in the neighborhood) with respect is the only solution that will work.
Taco: Israelis don’t dance in the streets, instead they bring their kids to write lovely messages on the bombs that will be dropped on the kids from the other side.
Charlie said:
“I’m really trying not to mention the Falklands war, where the British sent most of the Royal Navy to kill some Argentines who had stepped on some unpopulated islands.”
Actually, the Falklands were populated by British subjects at the time of the Falklands War, and still are. The UK sent forces only after Argentina ignored United Nations Security Council resolution 502, and futher international criticism, calling for Argentinean withdrawal.
Just saying.
The Navy could have sent less ships/personnel and lost the war and the personnel, would that have been better?
@ Armand Asante:
Who penned the following beauty:
====
@Michael:
“Then there is also the attempted coup d’etat by the losers of said election.â€
OMG!
Your lack of knowledge is so stunning it’s almost funny.
Hamas (who won the elections) attempted and succeeded in their coup d’etat. Not the other way around.
=====
I was referring to this:
http://www.foxnews.com/stor/0,2933,282673,00.html
In the future seek clarity before commenting on the capacity of another persons knowledge.
I am not interested in your brash pontifications.
Yesyesyesyesyes.
The mutual blamehurling over this stupid bloody conflict (the whole decades-long thing, not just the present nightmare) has the feel of kids screaming ‘he started it!’, ‘no, he did!’… Personally, I don’t fucking care who first took whose teddy any more. I just really wish you could bang countries’ heads together and tell them to grow up.